🙌 I had this similar thought that you’re kind of alluding to here which is with just the *tiniest* bit of a shift and using data and expertise they already have they could truly be the most powerful cultural social network force.
I mean, Apple’s Ping is a laughingstock now because it took Twitter and copy pasted it onto music but it’s not a stupid thought. A social graph built on what we know about social now - Superfan communities, Substack/Patreon models, etc. That shift along with user-centric payments would *materially* shape the resilience and audience connection and I think therefore happiness of the working artist.
We artists thrive on connection and there really is something about me not knowing or having any way to communicate effectively with my most die-hard listeners that is demotivating.
It’s just crazy because it’s all right in front of them and they refuse to do anything for the fan-artist connection. They’ve been teasing Superfan features for what’s felt like years and nothing has really changed. Just feels like bad business.
Imagine if there was an API you could build this stuff on and then just get it acquired by them, basically free labor to let the open market build some tools, best one wins, buy ‘em.
It probably exists but they recently made their API way harder to access, pretty sure you basically need to get someone from Spotify on the phone to access it
Music League is a great example. Phenomenal product that only enhances fandom and increases listening time. Built by a third-party indie dev, who recently needed to leave the project (presumably for lack of funding). Why Spotify hasn't acquired it yet is beyond me
I understand and can empathize with that. My perspective is that it might be worth the time not to ostracize so many artists who feel strongly about AI use (especially in image generation). No shame. Just something to consider. I love what you are doing as a whole. Thank you for doing what you do. It's very valuable!
Hey love this article! I had a question on the charge a dollar point. Although I agree that the main point of this is to add friction at the door, I do also think it's important to have an understanding what that new pot of money is going towards. I think without some safeguarding theres an argument to be made that it will be used for whatever nefarious reason you can imagine. Although I also don't think the revenue is the main point, it's still something thats important to consider. My question to you is do you agree that it's worth considering where this money would go to and if yes, what do you think a good way to invest it would be?
Yeah it's a good discussion point. Ideally it would go back into the royalty pool and redistributed to artists, but it could also be re-invested into the platform as just another P&L line that could improve Spotify's upside. There's currently tens of thousands of songs being uploaded every day, if that number stays consistent when this is implemented (which it wouldn't), that's a pretty substantial source of revenue. What do you think?
Yeah interesting - the only potential downsides of this are that this revenue's now being added to a pool that is pro-rata, rather than user centric - but this is maybe a redundant worry as I don't see Spotify changing this anytime soon.
My other thought is that there would be a poor PR angle that comes from this. "Spotify makes millions by adding upload fee without passing any benefits to its users" - I'm sure you can imagine. It raises a point on if this would be able to benefit wider users in any way? Realistically, the revenue created probably wouldn't be big enough to have any wider subscription reducing impact. Thoughts?
Another consideration is whether Spotify even want to limit AI uploads entirely. Do you think there are any hidden benefits to them of having AI artists drawing listens on the platform?
It’s a bit of both. The Pro-Rata model is the standard set by Spotify and can change platform to platform, but there is governing bodies like the CRB (Copyright Royalty Board) that determine minimums on what is paid out to creators based on their revenues. Look up the Phono V legislation that will be re-negotiated in 2028 for further context, it’s really interesting stuff that could shake up a lot
The KYC proposal is sharp. I've been researching the AI fraud angle too, and the Deezer numbers are genuinely staggering. The thing that keeps staying with me: the royalty pool was already leaking before bots arrived. Clyde Stubblefield played Funky Drummer in 1970. The money was paid — just never to him. AI made the extraction faster. But the architecture was already there.
Wrote about this if you're curious — the historical theft and the new one as the same story.
Where are all the mainstream artists that keep pulling their music from Spotify? they've got money, know other artists/investors who will invest money, and individuals in the tech industry that can build a whole new indie artist-centric platform just like the one you're talking about.
Fabulous article - agree with, and am intrigued by, all your ideas and would be genuinely persuaded to switch to whichever DSP offered at least some of these and think many others would too. I'm supremely happy none of my money currently goes to Spotify but I have no particular allegiance to the platform I use and would switch in a heartbeat to a DSP brave enough to stick their head above the parapet and do something genuinely different that, in all your examples, would benefit artists (of which I am one) and listeners
How do you think social media plays in all of this? Given that they offer tools to connect with fans and among fans, which you mention Spotify does not
They don’t really offer tools to connect with fans. Social media is a step closer to connection than Spotify, sure. But Meta, TikTok, and the main social media companies do not allow you to access your fan data (collect emails, phone numbers, etc.) in a useful way that actually adds value.
I just imagine a 2026 digital version of the band merch booth outside a show from years ago…..helping to create a more “intimate” musical space in the digital age while giving fair revenue to the artist.
The fandom business line is the one that lands hardest. Spotify has been sitting on the richest dataset of human musical behaviour ever assembled and they've used it to serve better ads and a Discover Weekly playlist. The superfan economy didn't grow up around Spotify by accident — it grew up around it because Spotify left the space empty.
The user-centric royalty reform is the one I'd prioritise. Not because the others aren't right, but because pro-rata is where everything goes wrong — distort that and everything downstream is distorted too. Sort that first and some of the other problems become more tractable.
One thing I'd push back on: the $1 upload fee. The real problem is that AI-generated content is economically costless to produce and effectively indistinguishable at scale. A fee raises the floor but doesn't touch the signal problem. KYC does more work here.
The closing line should be on a billboard outside their Stockholm office.
"I used to be in a Pink Floyd Facebook group where someone posted about The Wall every day for twelve years straight." brings me great joy. I can only dream of this level of obsessive commitment to my interests.
My favorite activity is reading track comments sorted by track time on Soundcloud. It gives me the same sense of connection as being at a rave and dancing alongside my friends.
The call-out that Spotify is not a music company is key here, because at its core Spotify isn't creating new content just the connector between the creators and fans. Fan enablement platform is where they could really lean into
I’m glad you acknowledged the fact that part of the reason there is such a loud chorus voicing disgust for streaming is that the same technology has enabled more artists to try their hand at a music career. I feel like that often goes unacknowledged. It’s not the worst problem to have.
It’s just so true. The market dilution that we speak of is actually just the art form growing and the barrier to entry is no longer. Thanks for the note
🙌 I had this similar thought that you’re kind of alluding to here which is with just the *tiniest* bit of a shift and using data and expertise they already have they could truly be the most powerful cultural social network force.
I mean, Apple’s Ping is a laughingstock now because it took Twitter and copy pasted it onto music but it’s not a stupid thought. A social graph built on what we know about social now - Superfan communities, Substack/Patreon models, etc. That shift along with user-centric payments would *materially* shape the resilience and audience connection and I think therefore happiness of the working artist.
We artists thrive on connection and there really is something about me not knowing or having any way to communicate effectively with my most die-hard listeners that is demotivating.
It’s just crazy because it’s all right in front of them and they refuse to do anything for the fan-artist connection. They’ve been teasing Superfan features for what’s felt like years and nothing has really changed. Just feels like bad business.
Imagine if there was an API you could build this stuff on and then just get it acquired by them, basically free labor to let the open market build some tools, best one wins, buy ‘em.
It probably exists but they recently made their API way harder to access, pretty sure you basically need to get someone from Spotify on the phone to access it
I mean if that’s true then Aaron Whittington at artist.tools is the guy to call. Dude knows the API backwards and forwards.
Music League is a great example. Phenomenal product that only enhances fandom and increases listening time. Built by a third-party indie dev, who recently needed to leave the project (presumably for lack of funding). Why Spotify hasn't acquired it yet is beyond me
Loving it! Letting my 11 bucks go to the people I listen to is a no-brainer! Many other great Ideas as well!
Feels so logical doesn’t it?
Indie artist here: Loving a lot of these ideas and I hope we move in this direction!! (Side note: not loving the AI-generated photos along with it)
Saves me some time from constructing my own graphics on Canva or taking stock images from Google..
I understand and can empathize with that. My perspective is that it might be worth the time not to ostracize so many artists who feel strongly about AI use (especially in image generation). No shame. Just something to consider. I love what you are doing as a whole. Thank you for doing what you do. It's very valuable!
Yeah I hear you, just really elevates the article and makes it more digestible, but can totally get where you're coming from. Appreciate the note
<3
Saves you time, yes. Also supports a model that hurts artists, just like Spotify. Food for thought.
Hey love this article! I had a question on the charge a dollar point. Although I agree that the main point of this is to add friction at the door, I do also think it's important to have an understanding what that new pot of money is going towards. I think without some safeguarding theres an argument to be made that it will be used for whatever nefarious reason you can imagine. Although I also don't think the revenue is the main point, it's still something thats important to consider. My question to you is do you agree that it's worth considering where this money would go to and if yes, what do you think a good way to invest it would be?
Thanks for writing!
Appreciate it Max.
Yeah it's a good discussion point. Ideally it would go back into the royalty pool and redistributed to artists, but it could also be re-invested into the platform as just another P&L line that could improve Spotify's upside. There's currently tens of thousands of songs being uploaded every day, if that number stays consistent when this is implemented (which it wouldn't), that's a pretty substantial source of revenue. What do you think?
Yeah interesting - the only potential downsides of this are that this revenue's now being added to a pool that is pro-rata, rather than user centric - but this is maybe a redundant worry as I don't see Spotify changing this anytime soon.
My other thought is that there would be a poor PR angle that comes from this. "Spotify makes millions by adding upload fee without passing any benefits to its users" - I'm sure you can imagine. It raises a point on if this would be able to benefit wider users in any way? Realistically, the revenue created probably wouldn't be big enough to have any wider subscription reducing impact. Thoughts?
Another consideration is whether Spotify even want to limit AI uploads entirely. Do you think there are any hidden benefits to them of having AI artists drawing listens on the platform?
Joel, who determines the pay model for streams? The platform/company or a governmental agency? pro-rata needs to go
It’s a bit of both. The Pro-Rata model is the standard set by Spotify and can change platform to platform, but there is governing bodies like the CRB (Copyright Royalty Board) that determine minimums on what is paid out to creators based on their revenues. Look up the Phono V legislation that will be re-negotiated in 2028 for further context, it’s really interesting stuff that could shake up a lot
The KYC proposal is sharp. I've been researching the AI fraud angle too, and the Deezer numbers are genuinely staggering. The thing that keeps staying with me: the royalty pool was already leaking before bots arrived. Clyde Stubblefield played Funky Drummer in 1970. The money was paid — just never to him. AI made the extraction faster. But the architecture was already there.
Wrote about this if you're curious — the historical theft and the new one as the same story.
Where are all the mainstream artists that keep pulling their music from Spotify? they've got money, know other artists/investors who will invest money, and individuals in the tech industry that can build a whole new indie artist-centric platform just like the one you're talking about.
Fabulous article - agree with, and am intrigued by, all your ideas and would be genuinely persuaded to switch to whichever DSP offered at least some of these and think many others would too. I'm supremely happy none of my money currently goes to Spotify but I have no particular allegiance to the platform I use and would switch in a heartbeat to a DSP brave enough to stick their head above the parapet and do something genuinely different that, in all your examples, would benefit artists (of which I am one) and listeners
Glad you agree Josh
How do you think social media plays in all of this? Given that they offer tools to connect with fans and among fans, which you mention Spotify does not
They don’t really offer tools to connect with fans. Social media is a step closer to connection than Spotify, sure. But Meta, TikTok, and the main social media companies do not allow you to access your fan data (collect emails, phone numbers, etc.) in a useful way that actually adds value.
What do you think of people creating a Substack with their songs, audio/or video?
A bit limiting imo but not a terrible idea
Please build this platform now. Seriously.
It’s not out of reach
I just imagine a 2026 digital version of the band merch booth outside a show from years ago…..helping to create a more “intimate” musical space in the digital age while giving fair revenue to the artist.
The fandom business line is the one that lands hardest. Spotify has been sitting on the richest dataset of human musical behaviour ever assembled and they've used it to serve better ads and a Discover Weekly playlist. The superfan economy didn't grow up around Spotify by accident — it grew up around it because Spotify left the space empty.
The user-centric royalty reform is the one I'd prioritise. Not because the others aren't right, but because pro-rata is where everything goes wrong — distort that and everything downstream is distorted too. Sort that first and some of the other problems become more tractable.
One thing I'd push back on: the $1 upload fee. The real problem is that AI-generated content is economically costless to produce and effectively indistinguishable at scale. A fee raises the floor but doesn't touch the signal problem. KYC does more work here.
The closing line should be on a billboard outside their Stockholm office.
Thanks for the note Tim x
These are great ideas.
"I used to be in a Pink Floyd Facebook group where someone posted about The Wall every day for twelve years straight." brings me great joy. I can only dream of this level of obsessive commitment to my interests.
It was such a beautiful thing
Love all of this so much!
Thanks Trevor!
My favorite activity is reading track comments sorted by track time on Soundcloud. It gives me the same sense of connection as being at a rave and dancing alongside my friends.
The call-out that Spotify is not a music company is key here, because at its core Spotify isn't creating new content just the connector between the creators and fans. Fan enablement platform is where they could really lean into
You nailed it!
I’m glad you acknowledged the fact that part of the reason there is such a loud chorus voicing disgust for streaming is that the same technology has enabled more artists to try their hand at a music career. I feel like that often goes unacknowledged. It’s not the worst problem to have.
It’s just so true. The market dilution that we speak of is actually just the art form growing and the barrier to entry is no longer. Thanks for the note